A long over due note..

d00t · #1 (**permalink**) 03-09-2009

Dear Gloss-It Crew,

After speaking with Rich today for an hour and a half, and hearing all the good things to come for all of you. I realized something. I got way too caught up in the back and forth between forum members on other forums against the gloss-it crew (including Rich, Dave S, Brian, and Bob). I wanted to stay out of the middle of it because I myself hate conflict. In the end, I found myself in the middle of it, fighting the wrong side for the wrong reasons. Not to say that either side is particularly better than the other, but the reasons why I chose "the other side" was for the wrong reasons. Rich is running an amazing operation, and I was sorry I almost threw it all the way. While being young, I made a few critical, and very damaging mistakes over the past few months (those who know, are meant to know, those who aren't, aren't meant to know). I am building from those mistakes and continuing to grow more and more mature as time goes on. And with the mistakes I've made, I've learned a lot. I'm now staying as neutral in everything I do as possible.. not swaying one way from the other. But I did realize what I ALMOST missed out on, and that's to be a part of the "team". I'm trying to right my wrongs slowly and surely, and hope one day we can all look away from the past, and draw our eyes towards the future and what's to come. I know that's what I'm after.

So, this is my formal, public, apology to those I've angered, disappointed, and betrayed for something I didn't know what I was after. I was a little in over my head, but I'm learning to deal. And taking a step back, and looking at what I did I realize the critical mistakes I made.

So I'm asking for everyone's forgiveness from the original team assembled at SEMA in hopes to look at a brighter Gloss-It future.

Thanks for reading everyone,

Aaron

Auto Concierge · #2 (**permalink**) 03-10-2009

This is a good start Aaron, remember as I always say and I did not invent this saying " smart people learn from their mistakes, really smart people learn From other peoples mistakes".

Those other guys will never have your best interest at heart, only to minipulate you to further their goals that they have. It is really hard to stand alone for what is right when the prevailing consensus says to bash someone, now of course Gloss-it is moving upward and outward and that fact has some people very concerned to say the least.

d00t · #3 (**permalink**) 03-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auto Concierge

This is a good start Aaron, remember as I always say and I did not invent this saying " smart people learn from their mistakes, really smart people learn From other peoples mistakes".

Those other guys will never have your best interest at heart, only to minipulate you to further their goals that they have. It is really hard to stand alone for what is right when the prevailing consensus says to bash someone, now of course Gloss-it is moving upward and outward and that fact has some people very concerned to say the least.

Thanks, Bob. Yeah I agree that people are starting to realize the GI is becoming a big player, and they want in on it (can say I'm guilty of this as well), so there's only moving up from here. Rich and everyone else made it through the first months still with their heads up, and now it's just "smooth sailing".

Smoke · #4 (**permalink**) 03-11-2009

First off let me preface the following with a quick annotation to you Aaron...

It very big of you to come out (unassisted) and formally apologize. Anybody that makes a mistake, no matter how big or small and "chooses" to apologize, the proper way, earns respect in my book. So I fully commend you on that note.

I have some opinions that I would however like to share with you and everybody on here, especially the newcommers. (Please note that opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink

)

Through experience and observation I have found that a lot of people are easily persuaded by those in a more prominent or powerful position. In this case persuasion is often sparked by certain prominent detailers seen on many forums we all frequent.

When I talk about persuasion I am referring to detailing ideology and especially product choice. Yes, essentially as professional detailers we all do the same thing but I found that you have to find your own way of doing things and that doing what somebody else does just for the sake of doing it truly shows a lack of individualism and I always felt its extremely important to differentiate yourself from everyone else as best you can.

When I started detailing 2 years ago I did what many people do... found top class detailers, read their writeups and wrote down the products and process they used.... and tried to emulate them! I'll be the first to admit that if I saw a well known detailer using a specific brand or product that that specific product is something I MUST use it in my details.

Over time I realized what I was doing was ridiculous and that I was simply buying products I did not need or didnt even like for the sake of trying to emulate another detailer, and even trying to class up my detail write ups. In the end I ended up spending more $$ than I could afford and got more caught up with products rather than the actual detail work I was doing...bad idea!

Now that we are being honest and open and for the most part all is forgiven I would like to say this to Aaron. I read most all your writeups and find that although you certainly have the ability and provide a consistently fine result that you maybe are doing things the way others do them, even if its not best for you personally. For example I cant help but spot many things that Clark at PB, Phil at DD and TH do, or products they have been known to use. Right down the product choice it seems as if some of your work is heavy emulation. I dont know about you but I cannot afford to spend $17 per bottle of P21s TAW to clean tires, wheel wells and engines with. I would be using that up like crazy! I know deep down in my heart that diluted APC will do just about the same work for a fraction of the cost and I could truly care less if my write ups are less "impressive" because I used Meguiars instead of P21s. But if you feel you need those certain products to achieve a better result than by all means continue you on with what your used to. I mean you can buy $150 Air Jordans but if you dont have the talent your never gonna play ball like Mike, and trust me you DO have the talent, if anything those Air Joradans figuratively speaking should simply be a secondary thought.

I recently saw your thread about 2 Eimann Fabrik products which you picked up, after a certain prominent detailers latest write up was posted featuring those 2 exact products. Before you think those 2 products are the best in the world (they may be for all I know) aslo note "that" detailer is a spokesperson for the company who sells those products, and most every single other product he has been using lately. I have no qualms about that, simply because as we all are, he is trying to advance himself as a professional and if he can get a solid break on products or corporate support because of his high status in the detailing community than that is great for him... but it may not be best for you.

Understand that the reason those guys use many of the products they do is because they sell them. Nobody "needs" to use Menzerna top inspection at $20 per bottle to do polishing wipedowns, or a several hundred dollar wax, we all know a 50/50 alc and water wipedown does the same as thing as TI for 1/20 the price. I used Menz TI once because I got a free bottle when I bought another Menz product and honestly it is a sticky solution to use for wipedowns and I much prefer my old 50/50 alc. The way I feel is that if something has worked well for you in the past there is no need to change it or upgrade for the hell of it. I for example was not entirely happy with P21s wheel gel so I went looking for other products and found Poorboys spray and rinse to be an excellent wheel cleaner, even though it was slightly acidic 99% of the wheels I worked on were regular clearcoat so I wasnt taking a risk, I did even dilute it to be sure of that. Some may think its silly for a high end detailer to use an acid wheel cleaner but it got the job done best for ME personally and caused no damage to any of my or my customers cars. The only reason I now use the GI wheel gel is because it offers similar cleaning ability without being acidic, so there again is the need for upgrade, not a want for upgrade.

I saw your latest write up on that NSX, similar to the one I did. Now that being a big write up and all did you really feel Swissvax BOS was best suited for that finish or did you just want to have a picture of you staging the BOS pot on the hood because it looks more prestigious than say a bottle of Signature Gloss and Concourso?

Anyway I found that especially now with the economy in the toilet that I need to do all that I can to cut down spending. I will NEVER sacarfice quality to save a buck but I will choose to cutback where I feel necessary and become a more cost efficent detailer and that means I will no longer just buy products because I see someone else use them. How many detailers can we name using uber expensive waxes that dont correct paint as good as weekend warrior guys using Zaino or Werkstat as an LSP at say $15 a bottle?

I will always take advice from those who I trust, people such as Bob and Rich... but I will do my best to cite those people in a write-up when I put one of their recommendations to the test, because quite frankly those ideas are not my own. Prime example being the Fenix and Tarminator.

Basically in some way we all do some form of emulation, simply because we cannot physically buy and test every detailing product on the market.

I just dont want a lot of people to do as I did 2 years ago and instead realzie you need to always do what works for YOU, not someone else.

This may mean nothing or you may think im just throwing out a ton of BS but I would not state something I did not feel strongly about and this is to everybody, not just 1 person.

But as I stated before this is just my personal opinion.

thank you again Aaron for stepping up and apologizing

-Dave

d00t · #5 (**permalink**) 03-11-2009

Dave,

To be quite honest. I use some of the products I use, for the "ooooo" factor. I agree, APC 3:1, 1:1, 2:1, whatever works extremely well. I never had issues, but I just HAD to try P21S WG when I heard about it from fminus. So I got it, loved it, and haven't looked back. Part of the reason I bought it was to test it out, and also because it's a name brand product.

I bought 5L of each about 2 months ago, and am about 1/2 way through. I don't plan on buying it again any time soon so I guess I'm "safe" :P.

The Eimann Fabrik: Again, yes. I bought it because TH used it with good results, so before buying it, I asked around, other people had good results. I can't judge something without trying it. And I felt it would be worth my $30 to try both products. I used them on a quick wash I did yesterday and was EXTREMELY impressed. More-so than P21s I have to say. But I would have never been able to formulate that opinion without trying them.

I am a detailing supplies whore. I wish I had the cash flow of Carlos(Nica) and Phil(fminus) to buy everything I felt like and test every product out. But, I don't, so I do with what I can. Also, being in official business, I have to maximize my pre-tax spending to keep my post-tax costs down (which I learned from Rich and Bob after freaking out in Vegas). So I guess it's almost a win-win as long as I can control the spending.

With that said, I try things out for two reasons: to give opinions on them the best I can, making me an ultimately better educated detailer, and because I see other detailers use them with great success (yes, emulating them, I admit it, I do it--like you said, we all do to an extent).

The NSX, which I just did. I will give credit due where due now that I see it affects people, I guess I just never thought of it. I used the werkstat stuff, based on your experiences, Dave. ANd I apologize for not citing, I will do so as often as possible from now on, for the respect we all want/deserve. The DWG, as I stated, was order way before you posted (2 weeks to be honest) but I hadn't had a chance to use it, because I was reserving it for that detail to start out with. The BOS I used because I honestly believe it gives an amazing shine on gloss red colors. Bob knows what I'm talking about on the F40 we did a while back, even he was impressed (at the time--before signature gloss/concorso gloss came out

). So yes, I did it because I feel like it made a difference, as opposed to sig.gloss/concorso gloss. I do use those, however, on cars that get the full-step detail and are DD because of the impressive length of time they stay on the pain.

I still know I don't know a lot, which is why I always ask questions. Like on prime, in front of all the potential customers (or that was the idea

), I even asked you about the spots in public, instead of through PM because I can admit when I'm more ignorant in a certain subject.

Again, I'm continuing growing and thanks for the comments, I will be sure to give credit where do from now on.

With that said, I just ordered a fair amount of GI stuff because of two reasons: I want to test it out for myself, and give my opinion, and the rave reviews. You can't honestly say you buy everything based because you just simply want to try it.. we (or at least I) don't have the money to simply try stuff to try, we need to see people have success first with it, and see if we can have the same success, know what I mean?

Thanks again for the comments Dave, I guess sometimes I feel like I just don't know ENOUGH to give honest opinions and go against the grain. I'm not nearly as confident as you, bob, rich, brian, ken, etc. Which is why I didn't polish at SEMA

. I guess I need to work on that too..

-Aaron

DetailWerkz · #6 (**permalink**) 03-11-2009

Well I have to agree with David, I have been professional detailing for around 8 years, and I really hate doing write ups on boards, and I only do it to help and show others how great a product I believe in is. I do not like to promote myself very much as a detailer, I just don't like that. You can ask Rich how much I would moan about having to do a write up and post it on other boards. I have been in the game for a while and I have always used a product that I believed in and not what I saw others using. I never understand why other detailers that write their reviews use the products they use. Some of those products are just in my opinion a waist of money.

I am always looking for product that can save me time, and time to me as a mobile detailer is money in the bank. So when I use a product or talk about a product it means that I am using this product because I know it will speed up my detail and make me more money. I enjoy reading others write up to just see what folks are using, but I end up seeing their results that I could obtain with a single step product or maybe 2 steps when they had to do like 7 steps.

It is also important that the products I use will bring me a good name with my clients, as I do not do much advertising and depend on my work to bring me more business.

I am glad that you apologized, I see a great future for you if you follow the correct path, and I feel you know what path that should be. Each day, each detail you learn something and that's a good thing.

Keep your head up and try to individualize yourself as a detailer and do what is important and use products because you believe in it and know it can help you in your business and not because you are just trying to be like someone one else or trying to impress others who to be honest dont care anything about you.

I on the other hand care about you and really like you (no-homo =)) and want to see you succeed. I look forward to seeing how you develop as a person and especially as a detailer.

Smoke · #7 (**permalink**) 03-11-2009

Aaron I am very glad that you did not take what I said as an insult as it was not intended to be one. And the purpose of what I wrote was not for you to have to cite the ideas or products you use in your details. I, nor is anyone else here, looking for recognition. This is not a research paper where every source must be cited (damn I hate research papers).

I am not here to criticize anyone, nor do I even have the right to do so as I am respectfully younger than you. I just experienced what you are kind of experiencing right now... The whole idea of "getting caught up" with products and image will only drain your wallent and inflate your ego.

Way to handle all of this professionally,

-Dave

Auto Concierge · #8 (**permalink**) 03-11-2009

The consensus is in, when something looks shaky(Aaron and I visiting Rich for the first time) we both had our doubts going in, but as I mentioned to you Aaron I said" let's see how things go" and the rest is history.

Rich has turned the corner on the product development and keeping his shop profitable in this nasty economic climate, behind the scenes he works and multi tasks at a far higher level than I can accomplish.

The whole dust up on Autopia with the well known players(who are presently playing nice and I hope it stays that way) bashed Rich in such a personal way as to ruin him financially and put false information out there concerning the viability of the Gloss-it line.

I have been detailing for profit since late 1993, and have tried to position myself as someone who is knowledgable, passionate and most importantly humble. As I am getting on in years as a detailer (46) my time is running short and I want to maximize the time I have left in this business.

To be a follower of someone just to not incur the wrath of the "cool guys" is something everyone has fell victim too at one point of their life, loyalty is a commodity that is truly in very short supply these days, also respect for others falls into this category as well and lost opportunitys is the result of the lack of the aforementioned quality's.

So now all of us here on Glossitonline.com can say we knew Rich "back in the day" before the company get's REAL BIG, the true testament to any claim is performance which Gloss-it has now proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, just look at the results of the novice detailers putting out work comparable to pro's in the biz a long time signing up almost daily.

This thread is now officially closed unless Mr Gloss has something to add.

DanPonjican · #9 (**permalink**) 03-12-2009

One of the most honest "detailing" threads I've seen in a while. Kudos to all. Dave, looking forward to picking up those "Masters"!

damon@tirerack · #10 (**permalink**) 06-23-2009